Mad Bills to Pay w/ Joel Alfonso Vargas

[00:00:00] Speaker A: This podcast is brought to you by MHA of Dutchess county and produced by CMJW Entertainment. This episode of the Vital Women of Washington Heights is proudly sponsored by Levia Med Spa. [00:00:12] Speaker B: You're listening to the Vital Women of Washington Heights. [00:00:21] Speaker C: Hello, everyone. My name is Iris Douglas and my co host here is Eyvette o'. Sullivan. And here is our producer today is Connor Walsh. [00:00:30] Speaker D: Hello. [00:00:30] Speaker A: I'm in front of the camera today. [00:00:31] Speaker C: As Connor's going to introduce our special guest, but we welcome you back to the Vital Women of Washington Heights living in Dutchess County. [00:00:37] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:00:37] Speaker A: No. So today is going to be such a great episode. With us today we have an incredible writer and director. His film Mad Bills to Pay has been just going all over the film festival circuit and we're going to be talking about the release, what it means, and how it's going to impact the community at large. So with us today we have Joel Alfonso Vargas. Joel, how are you, my man? You're out in the UK right now, right? [00:00:58] Speaker D: Yes. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. Really honored to be having this conversation with you guys. Yes, I am in the uk, in London. I've been living here for. I'm originally from New York, from the Bronx, but I've been living here for, like, since like the last four or five years. Geez. [00:01:11] Speaker A: Well, hey, thank you for dealing with the time difference with us right now. And of course, I'm going to hand it over to Yvette right now for her bro Chinche. Before we get into talking about your film. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Well, today, today's bochinche is that I know him as Joey. Joey and I are related. Joey's grandfather is my mother's brother, therefore Joey's grandfather is my uncle. And my mother and his grandfather are the only two living siblings out of nine. And recently they had the opportunity to spend some time together because they're both in their 80s. And I knew Joey when he was 5 years old and I haven't seen Joey since then until he had his premiere of Mad Bills to Pay. And I don't think he remembered that at some point in his life we had the opportunity to meet. And now it is such a joy to know him as an adult. And welcome to our show, the Vital Women of Washington Heights. [00:02:04] Speaker D: Yeah. Thank you for having me. [00:02:05] Speaker B: You're welcome. [00:02:05] Speaker C: You're welcome, welcome, welcome. How excited are you to introduce Joey? [00:02:09] Speaker B: I'm very excited. This is a very proud moment for our family. And I know from spending time with my grandfather, my grandfather, his grandfather, my uncle this past summer that he is extremely proud of his grandson. And in the Dominican community, they always have no dignada peroes mi faborito. Which is. Which is something that they always say about, you know, their children, their grandchildren. And in English, what that means is, you know, don't say anything. But he's always my favorite. But they say that about all of us. [00:02:41] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah. Like, my mom's always like, oh, you know, it's just the same, like, okay. [00:02:45] Speaker C: He saw something special in Joey when he was a little boy. [00:02:48] Speaker B: I'm sure he did. Joey was an extremely special young man growing up, and so special that he excel in the public school system to the point that his teachers, and also the principal. I know from stories that your mother has been able to share with me, recommended you to go to special specialized schools. And from there, I believe that's where you started to explore the film industry. [00:03:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, it wasn't really so much a specialized school as an alternative school, actually. But because I wasn't doing so well initially in high school in the Bronx, and basically I transferred to high school in Manhattan. But it turned out that that school, it was like, very. The process of getting into it was like, super rigorous. You had to, like, interview and do like, a logic exam and all this stuff. But it was a Montessori school, really. It was like, modeled after Montessori school. And, like. So I went from a context that, like, you know, that the classrooms were like 40 people in a classroom. So like, suddenly being with, like, 13, 14 kids and you get like a lot of. You got like, a lot of individualized attention. And because of how it was structured and, you know, the curriculum, there was a lot of art arts programs. So, like, I did playwriting, I did photography. And, like, eventually I learned about filmmaking. And that's really, like, how. But, yeah, I mean, I always kind of had a. I was always drawn to. To, like, I was. I think I always wanted to be a good student. But there was like, a phase, you know, when I was maybe around or closer to Rico's age, who's the protagonist in the. And Matt Bill's. I had a, like, bit of a rebellious moment and I was like, hanging out with the wrong people and all that. But, yeah, kind of turned it around really fast. And, yeah, I got out of that. I got a scholarship. I was able to go to college in Pennsylvania. And there I. I initially went for engineering, but I quickly realized that it wasn't for me. And. And I studied filmmaking. And one thing led to another. And that's how I'm here, I guess. [00:04:41] Speaker B: I think as adolescent, we've always experienced a moment where we rebel. And I think it's very normal. What is very commandable is if we're able to pull out of that stage and then find ourselves and become productive members of society and not fall into the traps that sometimes are there, you know, for maybe an underserved population or from a neighborhood. Because Iris and I, we both come from Washington Heights, and they were some of our friends that didn't have the opportunity to get out of the neighborhood. And then there were others that had the opportunity of getting out, like Iris and I did. [00:05:17] Speaker D: Yeah, of course. [00:05:18] Speaker C: I think that Joel also had the opportunity that your family was like, on it, you know, like, let's see how we can help Joelle be better. And that's what's up, you know, because that's how you got to. We're making a movie and you mad bills to pay. It's like everyone can resonate like that, you know, in the Bronx and in Washington Heights. So me personally, I don't know you, but I know your. Your. Your cousin here. I love her, and I. I'm so proud of you because that's a big accomplishment, you know, Dominicano from the Bronx, you know, represent. Yeah, exactly. You know, you know, what's up? So I'm. I'm honored. I'm honored to. To. To be here. [00:05:53] Speaker A: So Joel, got a few questions about the film. [00:05:55] Speaker D: Of course. [00:05:55] Speaker A: So you were mentioning around Rico's age, you found yourself in this rebellious period. Iris and I have yet to see the film. Only Yvette has out of this group. And we're all very excited with that comparison of what you were saying in ages. Would you consider that Rico or anybody else in the film is a self insert or is it a conglomeration of people or inspirations you've had in your life? [00:06:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, you know, there are some personal elements, of course, because I'm also the writer of the film, but really the inspirations, they were like, familial in the sense that I have a brother whose paternal brother is 12 years older than me, who was a teen dad at seventeen. My own mother was a teen mom. Not with. She was. She was a teenager when she had my. My older brother, who's about a decade older than me. So, you know, I was thinking about their stories, really, when I was. I. I can't really tell you which came first. Was it, you know, the story or kind of like the memory of them? But it all happened around the, the pandemic. And I just remember just thinking a lot about that experience and maybe it was because I was kind of then in my late 20s, I'm in my 30s now, but I was maybe the. The thought of parenthood and fatherhood and other stuff, like maybe was beginning to enter my mind and I was just thinking, but I guess thinking a lot about their experiences and how hard it must have been for them to just navigate it all as young people. You know, those are big choices to make and you know, in their case, I don't know, I wouldn't be able to see like, I don't think they were choices really. You know, it was probably accidents that led to some choices. But yeah, it just all seemed really, really complicated and I wanted to explore that through the, through the vehicle of a film. [00:07:36] Speaker B: You know, I want to share and this is very personal. I know that. [00:07:41] Speaker B: When, when your mother had kelvin, she was 16 and so was I because we're only three months apart. Three months apart because I don't know back then I have a lewd of cousins that they're all same month, three months apart, six months apart. So I don't know what was happening during that time. But for me, watching your mother's experience from the outside, that was. First of all, we used to spend a lot of time together. So I went through a grieving process that I was not able to have the same kind of relationship that I had with her as a 16 year old and a birth control as well. Yeah, she scared the heck out of me that here was somebody the same age as me and now they had to deal with a baby and her whole life was shift around the responsibilities and at the same time that she was pregnant, one of my best friends also was pregnant and she was 16 as well. So I had to wrap my head around this and I'm like, I am mourning the loss of two people that are very close to my life and it was very scary to see what they were going through. So thank you so much for putting all that information together and, and coming up with a film to showcase the struggles that. [00:08:59] Speaker B: Young people go through or teenagers when they're not ready to become parents. [00:09:04] Speaker D: Absolutely. [00:09:05] Speaker C: I definitely appreciate the film because I had a 16 year old cousin, male, who was a father at 16 and his girlfriend was 14. And I saw where he had to kind of struggle and work at a discount store, work at the supermarket and do this and do that, to hustle it up just to get milk, bread, whatever, you know. So I definitely. I'm waiting. I'm excited about the film because it's gonna. It's going to be relatable. You know what I'm saying? And I think it's going to be relatable. A lot of other people, too, for sure. [00:09:30] Speaker D: Absolutely. [00:09:31] Speaker A: So we've been tiptoeing around it when we've been talking about elements of the film, but, Joelle, could you give us a little bit of an overview? No spoilers, of course, but an overview, overview, synopsis of what exactly Mad Bills to Pay is about. [00:09:41] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, so it's. It's basically the story of teenage couple navigating a teen pregnancy. A very simple story premise, but it's. [00:09:52] Speaker D: He's 19, she's a little bit younger than him, so it's kind of, you know, that's already one big problem that they have to overcome. But she's kicked out of her house and forced to move in with him. And basically, you know, the sort of apartment becomes a stage for kind of like their, you know, you could say kind of dysfunctional romance, as you would expect it to be for a couple this. This age. I mean, that's all, like, happening against the backdrop of summer in the Bronx. And they sell these kind of cocktails that, if you're from New York, you're familiar with called Nutcrackers. Like, that's, you know, they do this kind of at Orchard beach. [00:10:28] Speaker D: To get by, basically. And, you know, you're just basically seeing. Seeing this. This kind of story, this window into this very, you know, I would say, pivotal moment in these young people's lives unfold. And that's. That's basically it. [00:10:45] Speaker A: That is really. [00:10:46] Speaker D: Without going too into, like. I don't want to give spoilers or anything like this. [00:10:49] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. But tell us about how your experience growing up in the Bronx influenced this. Because, you know, when it comes to certain movies, like I'm a big fan of Nolan's Batman trilogy, Gotham is very much a character as much as it is a setting. Would you say that you treated the Bronx the same way with this film? [00:11:06] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It is a character, and in a way, it was intended as like, a love letter to. To the Bronx and where I grew up. It's kind of ironic now because I don't live in the Bronx anymore, but, like, it's like that adage. Yeah, maybe, you know, but it's like, you know, you can't take the kid out the. You can take the kid out the box. You can't Take the box out. The kid, like the Bronx is always with me and it's like part of my DNA. Like I'm such a big fan of like, you know, so many kind of things that have their origin in the Bronx, like hip hop and like graffiti culture, all that, you know, it's like that Dominican culture really are what make up my identity. So, so yeah, like, and a lot of the stories that I tell, you know, they, they have at least the last three films I've made, they've had their setting and, or they were set in like either uptown, Washington Heights or the Bronx. You know, it's all kind of like the same kind of DNA, you could say. So, yeah, super significant. And for me it's, it's like not only just a love letter, but it's like a record. Because, you know, things are changing so rapidly in New York. So many neighborhoods are being gentrified. There is a cost of living crisis where just affordability is just inaccessible for a lot of people. And so who knows if in, I don't know, 10 years time, it'll exist in the same way. So it's like this kind of time capsule, you could say as well. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I like what you said about record too. I know what you're saying in the time capsule kind of way, but when I first pictured it as you said, kind of like a vinyl record. How certain things always spin when it comes to New York City. Obviously I don't live there, but I've seen a lot of the changes, number of people who are currently there or have been around. Says like, this reminds me of the New York city of the 70s. This reminds me of this. So it's just interesting how certain things come back around cyclical at the same time as well. We'll see if people will learn from their past, if it will continue to grow, if it'll devolve, how things will look in, as you said, 10 years, 20 years, whatever that might be. Again, I'm not from New York City, I'm from upstate. But we'll go from there. I'll pass it off to people who actually have lived in the city. For our follow up questions. [00:13:06] Speaker B: Well, that was part of why I enjoyed your film so much, because where you shot specific scenes, I was like, I've been there. Oh yes, you know, as a teenager. So you're showing so much the beauty of the Bronx, Orchard beach and, and, and the lifestyle and just the whole community, how people sometimes help each other, support each other, and also how some people could care less. You Know whether you're riding the train or whether you fall on the street and they just keep walking by and don't stop, you know, to see if they can help you. So I felt you capture a lot of the Bronx and New York City life and that's what makes your movie so real. [00:13:46] Speaker D: Yes. Thank you. Yeah. And that was completely, you know, the intention. I just wanted to really stay true to my experiences, like, and memories of life in the Bronx. So like, that part came easy, I think. And one of the questions that you guys sent me, it was like, how did you, like, how did you capture this sort of like naturalism? It was just like that, you know, I was just, I was trying to be as honest as possible. Like, I truly made the film with no other audience in mind but the, like the audience from, you know, where I grew up. You know, that it resonates so much. Yeah. That it resonates so much internationally. Like, that's, you know, that's a different thing, but, you know, you know, it. I think it goes to show just how when you are very honest and specific about an experience of that, you know, that resonates, you know, that people will connect to it. [00:14:35] Speaker C: You know, it's relatable to a lot of people. Definitely. For sure. I'm super excited because I lived in Throgs Neck in the Bronx, 15 minutes away from Mortuary Beach. So I'm super excited to see the film. Yeah. And I'm excited to find out what's next, you know, you know, like, what do you, like, what do you want. [00:14:51] Speaker D: To do next, you know, you know, like, it's been such a great journey this year. So many opportunities, kind of things that, you know, have manifested for years and you know, that are materializing and things. So. [00:15:07] Speaker D: The next step, of course, will be another film. Just a follow up to this. [00:15:11] Speaker D: Basically just trying to find, put together the financing and you know, you kind of have to go through the same journey with the next project. But the, the hope is that because this one has been as successful as it has been, that it'll. That journey will get a little bit easier. So that's the like, without going. I don't, I don't want to share too much because things are very much in the early stages, but there's a follow up to this film. Hopefully 2027, 2028. [00:15:34] Speaker B: That's great. That's very exciting. Speaking about real and raw, one thing that I was able to identify with are some of the scenes with some dysfunction. [00:15:44] Speaker D: Dysfunction, Sorry. [00:15:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:46] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:15:46] Speaker B: With the dysfunction in the family dynamics. And I find, you know, my background is in social work and not only is there dysfunction in Dominican families, but in other culture as well. Do you feel that what you're portraying in the movie, do people from other cultures resonate with the dysfunctional family? [00:16:09] Speaker D: I think, you know, you could, you could say that every family is to a certain degree dysfunctional. I don't know, you know, it would be like a perfectly functioning family. I think is that's an ideal doesn't exist. People have clashes, like their clashes between siblings or clashes between, you know, parents. You know, it's, you know, which is natural because you have like, I don't know, however big a family is, you know, four people, five people, 10 people living, you know, under one roof, like inevitably there's going to be conflict. So, you know, I think people do resonate with that on, you know, internationally. What I felt, what I found though is that like, in, you know, I guess Latin derived cultures, like, you know, like people from in Europe, like, for example, Southern Europe, like Italy and like Portugal and Spain, like, they kind of connect because I feel like, you know, like the communication is just a bit like spicier. And I think, you know, Dominicans obviously are derived from that culture as well. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Fireworks. [00:17:04] Speaker D: Fireworks, yeah, fireworks. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, you know, I think people also connect to the film, you know, on a thematic level as well, because you have, you know, we, we live in a world where, you know, the economic disparities are kind of, they keep growing and growing. You know, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer. There's. There's a lot of divide there. And you know, there are, perhaps there are, there are, you know, many places in the world, there are families that look like, like Rico's family. You know, maybe there are, you know, there are, there are teen fathers and so on. You know, you know, families are really like struggling to survive in very expensive, kind of hyper modern cities. [00:17:43] Speaker A: Well, the fact that you bring that up, I want to talk about Rico's character and the hustle that he has in the film. And it can kind of be looked down upon. I know that there are some illegal facets to it. So what kind of commentary were you looking to portray in what Rico has to do just to make ends meet? [00:17:59] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I think it's going back to what I was saying earlier about kind of a cost of living crisis. And a lot of these big cities, you know, London is one of them for sure. You know, people have to resort to alternative means of sort of, you know, of making an income. And, you know, I think that, you know, there is the gig economy, right, where you do have, you know, like, these sort of tech jobs where people are doing, you know, maybe, you know, Uber Eats or whatever it is, but then you have kind of like the doordash. Yeah, yeah, I've done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, people have to do what they have to do to survive, to supplement their income outcomes. But you also have the informal economy, which is just like, completely outside of that, which is, you know, it's a spectrum. You have, like, for example, I have an aunt from my dad's side who, like, she, you know, she lives in Manhattan, and basically she. Her gig is to. She makes soaps at home, face soaps, and she sells these soaps on the corner. Now she has, like, an Etsy store and she sells. But it's like these kinds of. And, you know, that's the very innocuous end of that spectrum. And then you have the more extreme and. Which is like, you know, the more problematic stuff. Maybe you're drug dealing, maybe you're doing, you know, you know, all as a means to survive. And of course, like, Rico's Hustle exists within that spectrum. That's kind of on the one hand. On the other hand, yeah, like, it's also. Rico comes from a community that is. Has been alienated, you know, like, in the sense of, like, access has been kind of a bit harder to come by and underserved. You know, whether that's like, through education or, you know, maybe there are language. Language barriers, like, things that, you know, perhaps lead one to being under. Qualified for a good job, you know, and, you know, as a result of that, then, you know, the informal economy becomes your only option. And I don't think that's exclusive to, like, the Dominican community or any community. I think every immigrant group has. [00:19:43] Speaker D: Kind of gone through that sort of road. You know, you think about the Irish immigrants, you know, like, you know, think about, like, Gangs of New York, you know, something like that. You know, it's just like people have had their, you know, and, you know, eventually, through the generations, people assimilate and kind of and so on. So it's. It's really an America. That's the story of America. You know, I think with Latino populations, it's just, you know, we're a bit younger here, and, you know, this is what we're going through now, but it's not things that are completely alien and removed to what others have gone through. I think with people of color, It's a little bit more complicated, though, because I think assimilation is a lot harder to kind of. To kind of integrate and so to gain access and to integrate into kind of, you know, mainstream jobs and so on. [00:20:26] Speaker D: And I think that as a result of that, you know, it could be that, you know, you're three generations in, four generations in, and you're still. The informal economy is still your only. Your only option, you know, and that's, you know, that's the harsh reality, you know, and it's difficult and it's bad. [00:20:41] Speaker A: As you said, we're getting poorer, and, like, that's putting people into these holes, and it's. [00:20:46] Speaker D: It's heartbreaking. [00:20:47] Speaker A: But I'm glad that you're being able. [00:20:48] Speaker D: To tell these stories. [00:20:49] Speaker A: I know I've been jumping in a lot, which. Anything else? [00:20:51] Speaker C: I just want to say that I'm happy. I mean, the more you kind of share your experience on why you created this movie, I'm really happy because people need to know, you know, the struggle is real, but you also get out of it. You know, you can also get out of it. You got to figure it out, how to get out of it. So I'm happy. You know, you're young, you're Latino, and this is a big accomplishment. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Well, it's a powerful message. But on a lighter note, can you tell us how did you go through selecting your actors? And know, being someone that saw the film, they're. The actors, of course, are not the age that they are portraying, but I thought that they did a phenomenal job. And I know from. From the interview that some of the actors. And I forget who exactly acted for the first time. And I was surprised to hear that because I was like, wow. I thought that they were a professional, you know, actor. So tell us more about your process and your selection and basically. [00:21:48] Speaker B: How all of this is done, because I don't understand it, and I would like to know how it all works. [00:21:52] Speaker D: Yeah, of course. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for the question. [00:21:56] Speaker D: I think authenticity was kind of like my, like, I guess, key idea with this whole thing. You know, I wanted to keep it as true to life as possible. And I knew that in order to make a film that felt authentic, that felt raw, that felt real, I had to kind of cast from within the community. Now I couldn't go to, like, you know, some kind of, like, casting agency and kind of, you know, that just wouldn't have worked for the kind of film I wanted to make. So the process initially entailed just having to, like, it's called street casting. So basically, you know, we were just going out, you know, to Orchard beach, to Washington Square park, like all over New York City where young people kind of got together and approach. We're approaching people like, hey, do you want to be in a movie? You know, like people who we thought were interesting. And then we'd get submissions like basically like self tapes submitted through like Instagram or whatever it is. And then that's how we began to kind of narrow our pool. And then eventually we started to chemistry test people. So that's just basically seeing how people work together, you know, as a family unit, for example. [00:22:58] Speaker D: At a facility in midtown. And yeah, like little by little, you know, and this all occurred in the course of like a four week period. But we, yeah, we found our family in the end. It wasn't like fully street cast. [00:23:13] Speaker D: The mother, for example, who's played by Joanna Florentino, she was someone who was in my orbit. She's a theater actress, you know, she does some, some, some screen work as well. But we've always wanted to work together. Nathalie came through a more traditional avenue as well. Juan, you know, has a bit of experience. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Can you tell us who Huang and Natalie. [00:23:32] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry. Natalie Navarro plays the sister. Juan Collado plays Rico. So Juan also has come from a sort of community theater background, has done some screen acting and Destiny Checo, who plays Destiny, the girlfriend, she's the one who's truly like a non actor. So we found her on TikTok. She was doing like these like lip sync. I don't know if you guys are familiar, but these reels, these lip sync reels to scenes in popular movies and it was not even her own voice. It's just like she's only acting with her face. But it was so phenomenal that we were just like, okay, we have to, you know, we have to see this girl. [00:24:09] Speaker B: And Destiny is not 16. And she was playing the role of a 16 year old. And I thought she did a phenomenal job because when she told me this is my first acting gig, I was surprised because for her to truly show the feelings of what a 16 year old can go through when she's going through a pregnancy, I was just like, I was like, what? [00:24:28] Speaker C: Really? [00:24:29] Speaker D: Yeah, you know, I think that was a beautiful thing. They all took like a lot of ownership over their roles and it was such a collaborative process, you know. You know. [00:24:40] Speaker D: Similarly, Juan, he's like, he's like, he's like in his 30s, you know, like, and he's playing a 19 year old, you know, it's just somehow we were all able to channel the sort of inner teenager in us and. Yeah, deliver. Yeah, deliver a strong film. But yeah, cool. [00:24:54] Speaker A: You mentioned the collaborative process with everything. I'm just curious, when you guys were filming, you being the writer and director, what was it like to be able to craft these characters once you finally had the actors in place, you're filming, Was there room for improv? Was there room for changing the script a little bit? And it's like, oh, I feel this way about this character. How did that look like by the time you actually got on set and started shooting 100? [00:25:17] Speaker D: Like, I kind of come from a documentary background and I have like this real allergy to like things that feel like scripted and fake. Like, you know, I just, this is not, you know, I, I can appreciate it, but it's just not. Those are not the kinds of films I want to make. So, like out the gate, we knew that we were going to improvise and that it was going to be, you know, emulative, more of like a documentary process. So. So, yeah, and the rehearsals, like, we had a script, like it was semi scripted, but in the rehearsals I was like, no, no, we're going to break this. And you know, with the cast, basically we just rewrote every scene, you know, in a way that felt more organic to them or how they would say something or whatever it was, you know, I just wanted everything to feel super fluid. Yeah, that's, that's, you know, what you see in the film. [00:25:58] Speaker C: How important was it for everyone to have like the same mindset and have the same energy for you? [00:26:03] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, it's so important. I think as a director, that's kind of like what you're directing. Like, you're kind of. You want everyone to just be in sync, like for there to be synergy and working toward the same goal, you know. And like you're like directing morale. I think that's really what it is, you know, so it's really like, it's, it's like, it's a lot of leadership involved in that sense, you know, more sometimes more so than like creativity. But you got to get, you know, a whole crew of people and a cast. Or like, in our case it was a 16 day shoot, but on bigger, you know, longer productions, it could be months, it could be, you know, you know, like if you're doing one of those like, really elaborate series like Game of Thrones, for example, you know, that's, you know, you're doing that for nine months, you know, so, you know, you're gonna have all these ups and downs, but you gotta still instill in people, regardless of whatever that, you know, they got to keep. There's, there's, there's a reason why you're doing this. [00:26:51] Speaker C: And I'm in good spirits. Right? [00:26:52] Speaker D: Yeah, totally. Yeah. [00:26:54] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:26:56] Speaker B: So can you tell us what was the most challenging part about creating this film? [00:27:02] Speaker D: I think the balance of having a very limited amount of time and limited resources, like the reality of that and then like having to balance that with like my, my needs as a director, which is, you know, and my goal was really, which are to like, deliver a quality film so to get quality performances and all that. Like. So like it was just always like a dance, you know. There never felt like there was enough time and enough like, like money and resources to do things. But I think in how the film is shot, which I know Iris and Connor, you haven't seen the film, but that you have like, you know, it's single setups, so. Which means that there's only one angle ever, like on a scene. We're never cutting to like a close up or whatever it is, you know, it's just always one angle. And that allowed us to move through our schedule very quickly and give me a bit of freedom to try new things from take to take. And then I kind of, as a director, I. I kind of made this like, promise to myself or I had this agreement with myself which is like, never move on from a scene without you getting what you need or like at least being a nugget of something that you can use because then otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time, you know, so it's like you kind of have to like. So you're fighting these two battles on, you know, you know, consistently throughout our productions. That was, that was the hardest thing for me. But there were also a lot of challenges involved in shooting in New York. And you know, navigating it was done very guerrilla. So, you know, in some places we have, we had permits. In other places we didn't have permits. So it was like a lot of that, you know, indie filmmaking. [00:28:32] Speaker B: Tell us the part. I know during your interview after premiering the film here in New York, you spoke about how, I believe one of the equipments was ca. Carried in a backpack. Was it the camera or the speaker? And I was like, oh, that's, that's, that's very creative. [00:28:46] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we had, we had like a real, real, you know, heavy duty like movie camera, you know, kind of top of the line equipment, but we really stripped it down to, like, just its bare essentials. So it was like, you know, because we just wanted to be as inconspicuous as possible. So, like, all the gear that, you know, you would normally put in front of a lens, like, you know, like, we took off so that it could fundamentally just be like a box and a lens and that's it. And then we had a battery running through a backpack through with a cable, and that was the whole setup. So, like, we could just literally get away with murder with us. We could shoot anywhere no one would. Like, you know, like, modified. [00:29:20] Speaker C: Modified. Modified. [00:29:22] Speaker D: Super modified. [00:29:23] Speaker A: You tried to put it all together. [00:29:24] Speaker D: That's silly. Yeah, yeah. So that was to figure it out. [00:29:27] Speaker C: Right when you wanted something done right. [00:29:29] Speaker D: Exactly. 100, you know, so I'm very curious. [00:29:31] Speaker A: To see this film just to begin with, but the more we're talking about it, I'm excited. You mentioned about how each scene is just shot from one view. I really find that interesting with your. As you said, you had a documentary background. I feel like that is a very voyeuristic way of approach to that where it's like, we're really encroaching on these people's lives. I'm assuming besides just a. Besides the challenges that you had when it comes to filming time and resources, that must have been an artistic choice as well. [00:30:00] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, it absolutely was an artistic choice in the sense that I was trying to avoid looking at a lot of, like, cinematic references. I didn't want the film to feel like your typical New York City film that, you know, I don't know, like, if you're a fan of, like, the Softy Brothers, like, Uncut Gems or whatever, you know, it's like these films are so, like, energetic and, like, to the point that they're kind of like. They're great films, but I'm just like that. And in all credit, like, that that's. That is a New York City experience. But my experience in New York City was like, growing up in the Bronx was kind of sleepy, was kind of slow. In the summer, he's hanging out on the stoops, you know. So I wanted to capture just like, that kind of languidness of how life can feel in that part of New York. But in addition, like, we were also. [00:30:45] Speaker D: Or I was looking at photography a lot as like, a key, kind of like, I wanted the film to feel really like a series of photographs in a sense. Like. Like, you're looking through a photo album of this family's life, so. So you could speak on this as well. But, like, you know, the film feels like, you know, you're just. You're getting these snapshots of this sort of. Yeah. This family. [00:31:07] Speaker B: Well, for me, when you said that there's a sequel, I'm excited because the way that the film ended, I'm like, now what? I want more. So it's very exciting that you will give us more. [00:31:18] Speaker D: And the fact that it's not really a sequel. So it's already clarified, like. Yeah, yeah. It's just. I mean, I. I hope to do that, you know, maybe in like 10 years time. I was like, I would even call it, like, destiny' child. You know, like, it would be like. [00:31:32] Speaker D: Just to kind of keep it. [00:31:33] Speaker B: You know. [00:31:36] Speaker B: It'S the type of storyline that, at least for me, it left me wanting to know where Rico is at because there's a particular scene that if I could get into his head and know what he was thinking at that moment. [00:31:48] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:31:49] Speaker B: So I want to know more. I want to know what Rico is going to do. [00:31:53] Speaker D: Yeah, no, I think, you know, in a way, I hear you, but in another way, like, I think that's. It's also the power of the film because we don't. We don't want to resolve that story. I think that story is so complicated, and I think we've all seen it play out, like, very positively and very negatively. You know, I think as maybe people from that community, we have to think on it positively. Like, we, like, I genuinely hope that their relationship works out, but I'm more. I'm. Honestly, as a filmmaker, I'm more curious in how. Yeah, other people kind of like how they. How they interpret that. Like, I want people to come to their own, understand. Understanding of what that story is. I don't want to, like, spoon feed them. [00:32:29] Speaker B: Well, we'll speak privately and I'll tell you how I think his. His life is going to unfold. [00:32:35] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. You would be able to tell me. I don't know. Yes. [00:32:38] Speaker B: So tell us about the Spanish title. The Spanish title. I flip my page. What is it? [00:32:48] Speaker B: Destiny. Dila canoso y malo. Why is not the same translation as to the English title? Why did you go with that particular title in Spanish? [00:32:56] Speaker D: I mean, it's a bilingual film. So I wanted people to, like, at first impression know that it is a bilingual film. It's, you know, English and Spanish. [00:33:05] Speaker D: So that's like off the. Off the jump, like, and both titles, like Mad Goes to pay is. Is inspired by, like, a lyric. Like a. That's like a biggie lyric. And. [00:33:15] Speaker D: Dile conocoimalo. Not the destiny part, but dile conoceimado that comes from, I think, like a Luis Vargas, like bachata. And so, you know, I'm kind of playing with kind of different song lyrics. But I think for me personally, there's like a. Almost there is a deeper meaning because growing up in a single parent household like my mom, and I think many people can probably relate, but she. She always had an opinion about my dad. Let's. Let's leave it like that. And most. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Most women that have experienced divorce or maybe their relationship hasn't worked out with their partner, they have an opinion about that person. [00:33:54] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, you know, you kind of. For me, like, growing up as a young man, I was like, oh, yeah, you know, my dad is this and that. And, you know, you know, my mom was really the one who, you know, provided for us and kind of, you know, and, you know, of course, you know, she wasn't perfect and, you know, like, how could you be as a single? [00:34:09] Speaker B: We love her no matter what. [00:34:11] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:34:11] Speaker B: Happens to see this. We love. [00:34:13] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. No, of course, like, I love my mom more than anything, you know, but. [00:34:18] Speaker D: You know, in terms of, like, my dad, like, I kind of always grew up with this, like, prejudice about him and. And then, you know, the older you get, like, especially coming from, like, a place as, like, I'm an artist, you know, I'm always dealing in, like, nuance and gray area, stuff like that. Like, you learn a person's context and like, you think back, you think about or you learn from, like, other family members, like how he was raised and, you know, the things that he'd gone through. That doesn't excuse his behavior. Absolutely not. But, you know, it just kind of. [00:34:47] Speaker D: Maybe makes you empathize a little bit more with that. Like. Like, I think, like, maybe if I were going through the same things, I'd be the same person. I don't know of a story. [00:34:55] Speaker B: Would you say there's always two sides of a story, his perspective, and then there's your mom's perspective. [00:35:01] Speaker D: Yeah. So. So destiny or dile cono so means tell them I'm not a bad guy. So that's like, you know, it's almost like Rico coming is. You know, when you watch the film, you realize, oh, yeah, that's Rico communicating to the audience through the title. You know, just tell them I'm not a bad guy, you know, and that's the. That's the idea. And I was so interested in thinking, you know, the whole. You could say that what kicked off this whole journey in a way, is. Is trying to understand, like, a character, I guess, like my dad, you know, like, you know, it's very complicated person. Kind of not always the most likable person, you know, like. Like, Rico is not, you know, the whole film. You guys will know when you see it, but, you know, you're just like, ah, you just want to really just. [00:35:41] Speaker B: You know, you want to strangle him. [00:35:43] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. Like kind of get it together, like, make the right choice, but, you know, at every turn, he's kind of not doing that. [00:35:50] Speaker D: And yeah, you know, that's. That's basically. [00:35:52] Speaker C: I can definitely appreciate the fact, you know, the single mom. I was also raised by a single mom, and my mom was always to papa. To papa. You know, it was always like your father. Your father. So, yeah, I could definitely appreciate that. But I've learned throughout the years that you got to kind of have compassion for them, you know, because they weren't mentally or physically or at the same level where you're at now. So I appreciate. I. I can't wait to see the film. And. Thank you. [00:36:17] Speaker A: As we're getting towards the end of this interview, normally I'm behind the camera saying how many minutes we have left. But something that I'm very curious about, we haven't touched on yet. As we said in the very beginning, you were going around in the festival circuit. What kind of reactions have you been getting from. People do that through that. And what about the whole festival experience? Have you been enjoying or not enjoying while showing this film? [00:36:42] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, that's a loaded question, but. Oh, yeah, yeah, we, you know, just to try to answer as simply as possible. Like, it's the reaction. We, like, we've shown the film, like, in every corner of the world. It feels like, you know, we've been to Tokyo, we've been to South Korea, we've been in Europe, we've been in Latin Americ America. We were in Brazil. We were, you know, you know, all over the states. So, like, truly blessed to have that experience again with a film that, you know, our expectation was just like, we just wanted to make a film that, like, told the story and with only one audience in mind. So that, again, that it resonates. It's like, whoa, that's. That's. That's awesome. But it's been so great just to show that film to different audiences and just to kind of get a sense of, like, what the cultural and, like, what resonates? Like, what's the cultural reaction? Like, what. Like, in South Korea, you know, like, there's. There's a joke in the film where, you know, towards the end, Rico, you know, he has this crazy idea that. Where he wants to name the. The baby Samsung, you know, and then, like, you know, it's just. For me, it was just like a throwaway line that we kind of found, like, in, like, the improv. But in South Korea, it was like. It, like, tore the roof off the movie theater. Like, people were so. People were so, you know, like. And then for the whole film before then, like, they were just so serious as well. Like, you know, I was like, do they like this film? I'm not sure, you know, but, like. And then at that film festival, we ended up winning, like, the grand prize, and it was like. But, you know, when we. When we showed it in Europe. We've been showing in Europe, you know, like, in Germany and Austria, like, the reading is always, like, a little bit more political. People want to know more about, like, the. [00:38:11] Speaker D: I guess, like, the social political themes, you know, behind it. And the US Is more, like. I think the reactions we get is, like, people who especially are Latino, like, feel very seen. And, you know, like, even when the title. When the opening credits, because it's. I don't know if you know who Tokisha is. She's a artist from Dominican Republic, but, like, the. The. Her music is the title music of the film. And when that comes on, people just, like, you know, like, they want to. [00:38:35] Speaker B: Get up and dance. They want to get up and dance. [00:38:37] Speaker D: It's basically. It's basically that. So that's so kind of beautiful. It's just. Yeah. So beautiful to see just how people. How different audiences respond to it. For me personally, though, like, to answer your question about, like, what maybe other drawbacks or downsides, like, it's just been really tiring just having to do all that. That whole tour. Like, I've been doing that for, like, 10 months, you know, like, and, you know, staying in hotel rooms and all. That's, like. That's kind of. I feel like I just need to chill out and focus on my health for a little while and. But. But, you know, super blessed to do it and definitely. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Well, I'm sure it's also been fun because. Tell us a little bit about Pablo, your producer. He's a lot of. [00:39:16] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:39:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:17] Speaker B: So at least you have that fun side that you can enjoy when you guys are not out promoting the film. [00:39:23] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. You know, we've. We've had, yeah, a lot of fun. Kind of like this. You know, we met. We've just, I think our networks have just expanded so much in this year and we've just met so many interesting people, like, you know, who we want to collaborate with or just, you know, like, generally just great people in the audience are just like, oh, you know, can, you know, treat you to a drink or whatever it is, you know, and so, like, yeah, it's been really affirming for us. You know, I think that's. That's the word I would use this whole process, like, because you go through, like when you're coming up, I guess you're always so insecure, like, oh, no, like, you know, maybe. Maybe this is a pipe dream. Maybe like, you know, I didn't like to get to the other side maybe slightly because, you know, we're still at the beginning, you know, Feels like, oh, shit, you know, we're not, we're not that crazy. Like, we've got to keep going, you know. So. [00:40:07] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:40:08] Speaker B: Well, we probably have one minute left because I know normally five minute warning. Would you like to leave the audience with some conclusion or. [00:40:19] Speaker B: Action? [00:40:21] Speaker D: Yeah, maybe like I could. Like my call to action would be the film is going to be out in the Tri state area in the spring. Can't yet disclose the date, but look out for it. Mad bills to pay or Destiny dealer soy malo in a cinema near you. Please come out, support the film and if you want to, you know, get in touch or learn more about me, you know, I'm on social media or whatever, just reach out and always up for a chat. [00:40:44] Speaker B: So thank you so much, Joey, for taking the time to do this interview with us. [00:40:48] Speaker C: Thank you, Joey. Really appreciate you. I know. [00:40:50] Speaker D: Thank you, guys. Thanks for having me. [00:40:51] Speaker C: Lots of other things that you're going to do, I'm sure. [00:40:53] Speaker D: Thank you. Appreciate it. [00:40:55] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:40:56] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:40:56] Speaker A: This podcast is brought to you by MHA of Dutchess county and produced by CMJW Entertainment. Thank you once again to this episode's sponsor, Levia medspa.